The following is the full transcript of Remarkable Episode 10: Nicole Welch on Being Real, Building Tribes, and Booking Great Guests
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In this week’s episode of Remarkable, I have a casual conversation with a former missionary turned sociology professor, who has made a name for herself as a business coach and podcaster.
Her research and work with youth in Adult Prisons has been published in the American Association of Criminal Justice Journal and she’s spoken at numerous conferences, workshops and seminars both within the U.S and abroad.
She’s a successful entrepreneur and founder of the non-profit organization, “Servant’s Heart, Inc” and she and her husband lived in Honduras for 3 years – spearheading several social justice projects including building homes, food programs, and starting and directing a Teen Challenge Center for ex-gang members.
She has a passion for helping others, and she’s known for her generosity and efforts to help people tap into their own “superpowers” so they can bring their greatest work into the world!
During our conversation she shares tips for booking great guests, and the #1 key to getting interviews with big names.
You’ll also learn several ways to get more exposure for your podcast, the keys to a great intro, as well as tips for becoming a guest on other podcasts.
My guest is both inspiring and empowering, and I really enjoyed listening to her stories, as well as her tips and advice.
She’s host of the podcast Real Time: Real Men Only, here’s Nicole Welch.
Dave: Nicole, welcome to the Remarkable Podcast!
Nicole: Hey, David, thanks so much for having me on.
Dave: My pleasure. I’m looking forward to chatting with you and learning a little bit more about you and your podcast.
Nicole: I’m so honored to be on your Remarkable show.
Dave: Thanks. Let’s get familiar with each other so my audience can learn a little bit more about who you are for those that don’t know you already. Tell us a little bit about your background and what you do.
Nicole: I have a background in psychology. I have a masters in psychology and I teach at the college here in Lakeland, Florida, in between Orlando and Tampa.
I was a missionary for years in Central America. I lived over in Honduras working with gang members. I’ve been married 18 years, have two little beautiful kids.
Basically my full time work is coaching and consulting. So I work with small businesses here locally, and then I also do online coaching, actually, for podcasting.
Dave: Excellent. Yeah, it sounds like you have a varied life.
Nicole: I’m very eclectic. I get bored really easily. I could list other things that I do, but I won’t.
Dave: Yeah, no, I’m with you. I’m right there with you. So your day job is the coaching. And do you teach in the evening? Or is your day job the teaching and you coach in the evening?
Nicole: Yeah, I have taught in the evening. This fall, coming up, I’ll actually have 2 back to back, Tuesdays/Thursdays. And I spread my coaching around, I have regular clients, I’ve had very loyal for like a year and a half now.
So my Skype coaching I do for podcasting is at night, after the kids to go bed, so we do that, which I really enjoy because it’s Skype and it’s easy.
Nicole: The coaching I do for the local businesses I meet one on one. So that takes a little more time, but if you’re pricing it to where it’s worth it, to me it’s worth it, and they want the one on one. They want the face to face, they want the personal.
I’ve offered to do it via Skype, but I find it way more meaningful when we’re together.
Dave: And what types of things do you coach them on. What do you help them with?
Nicole: Communication. So I help them with the way they’re presenting something, the way they’re marketing something, the way they’re pitching something. I help them writing scripts. I help the way they handle employees.
My husband and I had a drilling business for years, investigating sinkholes, which are actually kind of a big deal here in Florida, and in other states, Texas, and some other states.
So I had a lot of employees, and they were men. I had a lot of 20-21 year old, 25 year olds, very rough. You know, they don’t have degrees. They got paid really well, they were doing a lot of hard work and they made really good money drilling, and I had a lot of learning experience. My learning curve shot up really well there doing that business for years.
I find with small businesses, marketing, they don’t pay enough money for or they don’t know anything about it really, they don’t have a lot of in depth knowledge about it.
They don’t know how to handle or appropriately communicate with their staff or team. So I come in and kind of help resolve some of those problems with hiring, firing, and making sure that your team is happy.
Dave: That’s awesome, yeah. I’ve been working with small businesses for I guess ten or eleven years know, and I now that’s much needed, so kudos to you.
Nicole: Yeah, I saw that, me and you have a lot in common, actually.
Dave: Yeah, when I was listening to some of your interviews, I was like, this should be fun. And what probably isn’t out there is that I actually spent a summer as a missionary in Mexico city.
Nicole: Ahh, que bueno, where in Mexico were you?
Dave: I was in the heart of the city or just on the outskirts of Mexico city, which is a living organism in and of itself.
Nicole: Yeah, and very dangerous, actually.
Dave: It was a life changing experience, it really was. And I will never forget that experience.
Nicole: Yeah, and one month, that’s awesome that you did that long a time, because the longest they usually do short term is 2 weeks, so that’s awesome!
Dave: Yeah, I actually lived there for I think it was 9 weeks total. We lived with families, we were paired up, and so we lived with a local family in our missions organization support gave them a stipend for our food and care.
Nicole: Did you get sick?
Dave: I did not, no! I lost a lot of weight because we walked a lot.
Nicole: Yes. You walk a lot and you eat a lot fresher food, from the markets, etc.
Dave: Yeah, lighter meals. It was a really great experience, and I wish I could go back.
Nicole: It’s a life changer, me too, if my husband said ‘hey, let’s go back tomorrow’ I’d pack it up. I just told a friend that this morning, I would totally go.
Dave: What were you doing in Honduras?
Nicole: We went down and started a nonprofit called Servants Heart, and we didn’t want to go with any churches. We just didn’t want a church plant. We felt like our call was to be servants, and so we wanted to go alongside people and help them with whatever they were doing.
That was such an awesome way to frame it when we went down there, I mean we met so many people.
We had Catholic friends, and Mormon friends, and Peace Corp friends, which, oh my gosh, they really have to deal with a lot, which I didn’t know until I got to meet them.
Nicole: They would just shove them out in nowheresville and be like ‘okay! You’re on your own now!’ This one poor girl, we wound up becoming really good friends with her. We had people, South Africans, come and live with us for months at a time.
I mean, my husband and I are just very kind of fly by the seat of your pants, kind of just let’s just roll with life and the flow of it, and so it was just an amazing opportunity. It was life changing for ever.
It wasn’t like ‘oh that was such a great time, those three years we spent, it literally altered our whole mindset, our whole mentality about life in general.
The main thing we did was build homes, that’s how we started out down there. We helped an organization called Hope 4 Honduras. And then I started teaching, I’m really a teacher by trade, and so I loved teaching the women and the kids.
But then we kept running into these gang members, and we were like ‘hey, we know about teen challenge, and we had friends that had been in teen challenge before.
And somehow, I don’t know how, you know how God works, we met the international director, and they were like ‘hey, do you guys want to start up a program down here? We don’t have one, it’s a huge need.’
The political environment down there was horrid, the President’s son was murdered by a gang member. Honduras is one of the most violent countries in central America besides Mexico, and it’s one of the poorest.
So we were like ‘sure!’ we were kind of like clueless. Yeah, no problem! So we did it, and man it was – I just did a podcast this week about Gringos and Gang members, and what we learned.
Uh, we learned a lot! We made a lot of mistakes, and we had a lot of successes and we had a lot of amazing moments, and a lot of really difficult ones, and it definitely stretched our marriage.
I always tell people as a therapist, I used to work on a psychiatric unit for about 7-8 years, and I would tell people ‘man, when that tube of toothpaste gets squeezed, that toothpaste is going to come out.’
Stuff comes out of you that you knew was there when you get squeezed. And we definitely got squeezed when we were over there. And we would not have gotten squeezed being here. And so in ways that we got squeezed over there would never happen over here.
Because we were just put in situations where we really had to dig deep, and you know, ugly stuff came out of us, and we were like ‘okay, we need to deal with this.’
And it was rough, you know, there were rough times, but we grew out of that, and I just believe we grow in our pain, and we grow in adversity. And I really believe that’s the only way we grow.
So a lot of my work with businesses is really, sometimes about that, kind of dealing with the inner conflicts or projects that people do, and the way that they’re perceiving another person.
So I learned a lot of that almost on the streets, working with the gang members, and having my background in psychology. But you know, the degree, what to do. I know people, I’m sure you do David, that have marketing degrees that don’t know squat about marketing.
Dave: Absolutely. They’re all on twitter.
Nicole: And I tell these young kids – I’m like come on, guys, are you listening to any marketing podcasts? And they’re like ‘uhh, no, there’s podcasts?’ and I’m like ‘oh my gosh, you’re going to learn way more about marketing with these podcasts than you are in school, and they’re looking at me like I have three heads, and I’m like come on guys, get with the program here.
Dave: So, how many years ago was it where you were in Honduras?
Nicole: We came back in December of 2004. It’s so funny, because it feels like I came back a year ago, and whenever I tell people that, I’m like ‘oh my Gah, I’ve been this long in the states.’ And we went back and visited – I went back probably 3 or 4 times to visit. We left our hearts there with family, but we haven’t gone back to live in a long period of time.
Dave: Yeah, I was in Mexico city in the summer of 1996, it was after my sophomore year of college, and I feel like it was yesterday.
Nicole: Yeah, it was weird, and it’s just so – I think because it was so life altering, that it just stays with you. It was kind of fun, Gavin and I, my husband were reminiscing about stories when we were podcasting, and it was like ‘oh, I forgot about that.’ Then you kind of do realize ‘wow, it’s been that many years since we were there.
Dave: So you came back from there, and then you started the drilling, the sinkhole business.
Nicole: Yeah, we were living out of my bags in my parents house, which will definitely make your creative juices flow, for eight months I had to live with my parents. That was a struggle, that was rough. Coming back was harder than going. Because I was literally in culture shock again from my own country.
So we were literally hanging windows, okay, like I was all day long. We were working for a friend who had his own business, because we needed money. So finally we settled in and Gavin got a job, and I was working at a psych unit in Orlando, actually, and then I transferred over to Lakeland.
Then we were like, with his job, actually, was what spurred on the idea to do the drilling company. They were contracting out the work and Gavin was like ‘what if I just get some rigs and we do it all in house.’
And I was like ‘oh, that’s brilliant.’ And we didn’t know if his boss would do it, but he did.
Yeah, we had like no – I had to learn to pitch to people and get private money invested. We didn’t have any credit or anything, so I’m getting these friends of mine to loan me 60 grand here, and 60 grand here, and 90 grand here, because rigs are expensive! They’re like 100 grand!
So we needed money. We bought one rig, and it was crazy in the beginning. I remember writing checks and hoping to God we would get paid so they’d clear the bank.
Dave: Yeah, yeah.
Nicole: And then, within a year and a half, we were raking in – and just one thing, to brag on my husband a little bit. I saw that man with no money and I saw him with money and he never changed. I always tell people that. We didn’t go up and buy some crazy – we just kept living like we were.
I had my first baby, my son Ezekiel, and we just kind of. Our hearts were so for missions anyway, we just wanted to pour back into missions anyway. Which we still do. And that’s why we are entrepreneurs, really, so that we can do that, and still maintain a servant heart. Having a servant heart for other people. That’s really what we wanted to do. So, yeah.
Dave: Yeah, that’s an interesting story. I did look on LinkedIn and saw your Servant’s Heart, that you’re still a part of that. What is that organization? What do you do with it now?
Nicole: We’re not doing too much with it now. We do some school sponsorship. I have a son I’ve never had, I’ve been paying for 7 years of medical school, which is kind of like a mortgage payment.
So we do a lot of school sponsorship, and the thing about third world countries, and you know this, over in Mexico, is that women don’t have really any opportunity. They’re expected to be nannies, or expected to be whatever.
So we saw that, and we really wanted to sponsor kids for school. So right now, that’s all we do. We used to help other missionaries in Africa and stuff, but currently, the only main thing that we’re doing as far as sending money is school sponsorship.
Dave: Yeah, that’s awesome though.
Nicole: And when I say school – I mean we have one that’s in medical school, that i’m bragging about. But really, just regular, the education in Honduras, I don’t know what it was like in Mexico, the top was a sixth grade education.
So you’re hanging out with like a 35 year old who is educated up to sixth grade. A guy. So it’s kind of crazy. We wanted them to go further. We wanted them to go, you know, to secondary, like high school and stuff.
Dave: Yeah. I was on the outskirts of Mexico, and I think it grows by several thousand people per day, and they just come from the countryside, and they just start building little houses on the outskirts of town.
Nicole: Yeah, it’s crazy. Absolutely crazy.
Dave: Yeah, it’s just a different world. So how did you get into podcasting?
Nicole: That’s a good question. So my husband actually got me into it. You know, we have a business, and he started just doing some self studying, and we had some business training before. I had been in some MLMs, just to make extra side money, and realized I was pretty good at it.
So we went to a couple of trainings for that and learned more about business, because neither one of us had any degrees in business. He’s an environmental scientist, so he started listening to podcasts. So he was like ‘you know, I’m going to listen to podcasts.’
We did some investing, when we did have some extra money with the drilling, we would invest in homes. And at the time the market was crashing, so we could pick up a house for like 30 grand. I mean it was crazy here in Florida. So we were picking up houses here and there, and buying them out and renting them.
So he was like, you know, I’m going to do a real estate podcast. And I was like ‘okay,’ and he was really into it, really into real estate stuff, investing in that aspect. Now he is a realtor, but before, he was just investing.
And I’m like, okay, honey, whatever. And he would keep hounding me, like ‘listen to this podcast, you should listen to this.’ And I didn’t even know how to download one on my phone. I was like how do I do it?
It’s so funny, because I do this now for people. I’ll be like ‘give me your phone. I’ll be like ‘here, you already have the app, and I’ll download. Which is a great way, by the way, to get them to listen to your show, because then you can be like ‘oh, I’ll download mine, and then here’s some other ones.’
Dave: Just subscribe them, yeah.
Nicole: And I’ll tell people, these are really good. Depending, obviously, on what they’re into.
Dave: Sure. Sure.
Nicole: So, if they’re into yoga, I know the yoga people. These are the ones you need to listen to. So he was doing that to me, and then I was like’ oh, wow, that is really good. And it’s like radio!’
I always joked about saying I just want to be on the radio, ‘one day, I’m going to have my own radio show.’ That was back in the day, when podcasting was around, but nobody really knew about it. And Gavin was like ‘you can! You should just do one!’
So I kind of played with the idea like most podcasters do, and then toyed with it, and then was like ‘oh, I have to have a website, I have to do this and that.’ And he just really pushed me. He was like listen, set a date, and was like ‘I’ll help you in the beginning, just do it.’
So that’s how it began. And me and him, with our whole experience in working with men, and I was finding myself counseling or coaching men with communication, relationships, or business, and I just had a way with guys.
So I thought it would be really fun to do a men only podcast, hosted by a woman show. That would almost be like the hook. So why is a woman doing a real man show?
And it was funny, whenever I would say ‘Real Men’, people would freak out. They would kind of get all nervous. They’d be like ‘what does that mean? What’s a real man? And so I kind of liked the attraction I was getting from it.
And at the time, I did have a business coach because I was starting to do some speaking and business consulting, and he was like ‘yeah, you should do a show. Totally. And you should do Real Men only, and make it a point (and he was a great marketer) make it a point to only interview Real Men. And that will be your hook.
And let me tell you, to this day, I was reading some of your questions about what makes a good podcast? I think the name says a lot. Like I look at book titles now, and when I hear someone kicking around a title, it’s got to have a hook. You’ve got to have that hook. And Real Time: Real Men Only definitely has the hook.
Dave: And you just surpassed 100 episodes, is that right?
Nicole: I did.
Nicole: Thank you! It’s kind of crazy.
Dave: A big milestone. What’s been the hardest part about either early on, or somewhere in the middle? What’s been the hardest part about keeping it going?
Nicole: I was pretty good about the consistency. It is a lot of work, I think in the beginning, editing for me was hard. I’m not techy, and my husband is. He’s like the sound engineer, and I’m the singer, and you know, guitar player – I’m the musician.
So it’s like I just didn’t want to edit. I was always asking him to help, and he was like ‘listen, you’re going to need to do this on your own. And back then – nowadays it’s so obvious, they’re just like I just outsource all my editing and whatever, but I just didn’t even think about it.
I guess I didn’t want to pay the money. I was kind of like this is my work. I was maybe a little too, almost, like I want to kind of control it.
So it would take me, sometimes, like three hours of editing and posting it. Gosh, that was so time consuming. But I will say, for anyone listening, it gets so much easier.
It’s like child rearing, like when you’re exhausted and the baby is born and you haven’t slept, and you’re like ‘oh my gosh is this ever going to get better?’ And it’s like all the stuff moms don’t talk about?
It did get better. Now, it’s like, I can edit really fast, and post it, and have it up and running in no time. It’s like the more you do it, the better you get at it.
And I will say, I was pretty consistent and very – I mean, I did miss a couple shows, or weeks, where I had one week and I would always tell the listeners, you know, and blah blah blah. But it was very rare, I think I missed like two. And one of them was because I was at Podcast Movement.
Nicole: And so when I came back, I was so exhausted, I was like ‘eh, I’m not going to do one.’ But I think being consistent would be the most important thing. Just knowing ‘this day I’m editing, this day I’m recording.’
If you’re doing interview days, have it on a set day when you do your recordings, and then really just getting the hang of it. I had a check off list for myself, because my husband was like ‘you’re doing this now, I’m not helping you anymore, I don’t have time. Because he was doing his, and we were both working, and we had the kids.
Nicole: I just had to do it, I had to get over my fear of technology, because when I say I am not techy, I really am not techy, I don’t think people understand. So I think anyone listening to this show even today, who’s thinking, I don’t think I can do a podcast.
I think everybody should be podcasting. It’s opened up so many avenues and doors for me, and it’s changed my life. Really. To be honest with you. Me and my husbands. And so I want everybody to be doing a podcast.
So when I hear that objective of ‘oh, I’m not techy’, I just immediately shut it down because I’m like listen, honey, if I can do it, you can do it.
Dave: Yeah, absolutely. When you say it’s changed your life, what do you mean?
Nicole: It’s just given me a platform that is so accessible. That’s the word I like to use when I’m talking about podcasting. I’m accessible to people that I want to be accessible to, and then I have an in with people that I would never have met if it hadn’t been for the show, if I hadn’t said, ‘hey, Ryan Holiday, I want to talk with you.’
James Altucher, you know, someone who I had followed for a long time, loving his writing, listening to his show, and the way he interviews. I don’t know what his deal is with his audio. Just the way he interviews, too. He’s got money, too – but he’s gotten a little better now. Just the way he interviews, too.
I knew growing up, I loved hearing people’s story, and just learning about them as a therapist, hearing what was going on. In the psych unit, I heard everything, just crazy stuff.
And to me that was exciting, you know, getting behind the mic and being able to talk to this guy that I don’t even know, and just hearing his stories and just being able to pull out, you know, what makes him, you know, who he is, and just asking those questions.
To me, that’s been life changing. I’ve learned so much about myself.
You won’t hear a lot of people say this, but podcasting made me learn more about me than other people. It’s almost like the missionary thing where they’re like ‘oh, we’re going to bless people,’ but really you end up being changed.
It really is all about you, like you’re the one who winds up getting blessed. And I’m sure you blessed people, but you’re the one who really winds up being changed. For me that’s what podcasting is. I learned more about myself, I learned what I did like, what I didn’t like, What thought I didn’t like.
I’m a very decisive person, very dominant personality. So I’m like ‘I know what I want,’ but when I started podcasting, I was like, there’s a whole new world out there that I don’t even know about.
Even with business and marketing. The stuff I learned from interviewing people, I would’ve never learned in textbooks or books.
It just comes alive. And I’m a teacher, so I love that interaction, I love to have that energy going on. For me, podcasting is just life. It’s getting to walk alongside someone for a brief moment, and it does, it changes me.
It changes how I think, it changes my belief systems about certain things. Just kind of opening me up more and being more flexible to where other people are coming from.
Dave: Sure, that’s a great perspective. How are you going about getting your guests. How have you connected, for example, with James Altucher and some of the other guests that you’ve had?
Nicole: I will say the one thing I was like, I don’t usually brag about myself,
Dave: Please, go ahead.
Nicole: I will say I do love the challenge of getting guests. So I mentioned Ryan Holiday, who I love, he wrote The Obstacle Is The Way, and he has a new book coming out.
Nicole: Completely dogged me, right. Being a multi-level-marketer, I had said MLMs in the beginning, you get used to ‘no’s’, like really fast. And people scorn MLMs and think they’re evil, and I’m not in them anymore, but I made money doing them. I needed it at the time.
Nicole: I think that kind of gave me a little edge on asking people, like I didn’t care! I’d be like ‘hey, James, so-and-so, and I would kind of leverage saying I reached out to so-and-so and so-and-so, and they thought it would be a good fit, and blah blah blah,’ and I actually went to Claudia at the time, maybe about 8 months ago.
James had responded, but he had never followed up. He just said ‘yeah, that’d be great.’ And I never heard anything, so I reached out to Claudia. And I’m persistent.
So as a multi-level marketer, you learn to take no and rejection and then you learn to be persistent, because you have to eat.
Nicole: And so, and that’s where I learned how to frame questions. So what I would do is, I had almost a little script, and I use this with my podcast clients. And I would say ‘hey, so and so, and I would connect them to someone I have already known.’
So I said ‘so me and Tucker Max were talking the other day and your name came up.’ Which is true, I would never lie, and he said that you’d be good on this show or whatever.
I said I know you’re really busy, I appreciate the consideration, quick 30 minute interview, I would not take anymore of your time. I’ve actually had people say ‘oh, Nicole, because you said it’s only 30 minutes, I agreed, because sometimes other people will write and say ‘oh, it’ll be like 45 to an hour’ and that’s scary to them.
And I know, you know, when you’re pitching or you’re marketing something, you can’t market in that scary ‘this is going to take up your whole afternoon’. Because they’re out of there, man! I don’t want to waste 45 to an hour of my time unless I’m really enjoying myself.
I always tell them what a huge fan – because I was, I’ve been a great fan of everybody that’s been on the show. I would be persistent. So it’s funny, Ryan Holiday completely ignored me, for literally a year. I think I wrote to him twice.
I even offered to be a virtual intern for him for 2 days, this is how bad I wanted it. And he’s very introverted, and he actually wrote me an email, 2 weeks ago, out of the blue. It was so weird.
And he told me about his new book, and he’s like I am so sorry – he actually apologized for not even apologized, really, is what happened. He said I want to give you a free copy of the book, and let’s stay in contact – so it was really cool. I was like oh, wow.
That’s pretty amazing. So for anyone listening, if you haven’t heard that from people, don’t be mad. Definitely don’t bad talk, about anybody in the podcasting world. I feel like that – I love our podcasting community, I feel like we’re a very loving family. Very encouraging and loving toward one another.
I’ve been in the internet marketing niche before, and it can be a little cutthroat, depending on what you’re doing. Real estate, especially, can be very. So I love this community, and I do feel like making it short and sweet, and making it to the point, and letting them know that it would be an honor and you know they’re busy, and you’re not going to take up much of their time.
And then the key is connecting other people that they know that you’ve already interviewed or are going to be interviewing.
Dave: Yeah, that’s a great perspective, and I’ve been in that situation too, where I’ve already reached out to other people and just haven’t heard anything. It’s so easy for any of us to think that we’re not good enough or it’s about us.
But typically it’s not – they’re just busy, or they’re shy or they’re overwhelmed, or they’re in the middle of another project that you have no idea.
Nicole: Right. And some of these guys were high profile. You know, Jayson Gaignard, these people are busy. They are doing a lot of things that I particularly may not be doing. You know, Grant Cardone, is a round traveling, or speaking. So you’ve got to take into consideration their time and stuff.
And ironically Ron Holland wrote an article about that, just where we come off as expecting them to give us an interview or thinking that everybody wants to be interviewed, and that’s not really necessarily true.
Nicole: And also, too, I would go with my gut of who I wanted to be on the show. I think in the beginning my mistake was just picking people, big A-listers that everybody else was having, and then when I realized they’re all the same interview questions.
I think that’s a huge mistake that new podcasters make. So if you’re listening, and you’re new, don’t do that.
You can have A-listers on, just make it different. Listen to the other shows your guests have been on. Jordan Harbinger I had on, and I listened to his other interviews, very intently, and I wanted a different twist on how we did the interview.
And there was a couple of other guys, I can’t remember the names, but I just remember going, you know what?
Oh, Ari Meisel, which I haven’t aired because he was in the airport, and I need to edit out all the loud airport noises. But he, I took a totally different twist on his interview, and completely not like any of the other interviews he did.
And it was stuff I was interested in about health, and his children, and different aspects of women in productivity, so I actually kind of took it with a slight twist. You don’t have to completely change it up, but just add your take on it. This is the deal – you are so individual.
Even if you are interviewing the same person, if it’s Tony Robbins and a gazillion people have interviewed him. You’re individual, be individual. Take it how you’re going to make it different. Because you’re unique. Obviously it’s going to be unique because you’re doing it and I’m not. Be confident in that. That’s going to make the interview exciting.
And also be relaxed. I know a couple of them I got nervous, and I had to tell myself right before I got on, you know what? They’re just people. Who cares!? They’re just people like me and you.
These aren’t like rock stars. And even if they were, even if I was interviewing The Rock, who has totally denied me still, to this day, who I swear I’m going to get on. He’s just a guy. He has to go to the bathroom just like we do. You have to tell yourself that.
I do believe, just like singing, when you’re nervous, it sounds terrible. So, I mean, if you have to have a glass of wine before you podcast go for it. The more relaxed you are, the more yourself you are.
I’ve even had people, even John Lee I think, say ‘oh yeah, when I was super nervous or something, it was too canned, or I was thinking about the question next I wanted to ask and it didn’t come out the way I wanted it to.’
But when you’re relaxed and having fun, it’s awesome.
Dave: I would agree. Tons of great advice in there. It looks like you have somewhat of a community. Have you built a community? Do you have a tribe? Do you feel like you’re producing something for any number of people that kind of come and go.
Nicole: I definitely have a very misfit following. It’s funny, I totally go against what John Lee says about having an avatar. Now for some podcasts that completely works. And for marketing, of course, you want to know who you’re talking to.
For me, I have probably just as many women listeners as I do men, because they’re wanting to know what a Real Man is, they’re wanting to know about business, they’re wanting to up their game when it comes to communication and being confident. So, in that aspect, they communicate with me.
They’ll email me, or message me, and say ‘oh my gosh I loved this, or I loved that.’ And for me, I’m not so much into building big tribes or big followings. I’m more into the loyalty of it.
They love the show, they’re messaging me saying when’s the next episode coming out, or this or that. And I feel like I can be more personal with them. So yes, I do have a community, but it is small. I don’t strive – and in the beginning I wasn’t striving for that.
I kind of use this line, and it’s definitely out of the Bible, but ‘whosoever will.’ Really, is wanting to know what true masculinity is, and what true femininity is, and what true community is. Real marketing is real communication.
And so I kind of wanted a catch all, which is a complete no-no. People will tell you you shouldn’t do that. I really think it’s up to you and what you want the show to be about. I think it can be detrimental if you do that. I get people coming up to me, pitching ideas about podcasts. ‘I want to do this idea about health.’
And I’ll be like ‘okay, well what about it. What is different about this. Why is this unique?’ And it’s very general. It’s too general. So I definitely don’t advocate that. But I also know that people are going to be listening to this show. It’s got to be content valuable, and this and that.
Well, some shows, I’m just talking life – you know? Nitty gritty stuff with some people. Or maybe I’m just on there talking about trust cycles, and passive aggressive vs. aggressive communication.
And sometimes for me I just feel like they are listening to it because of me delivering it. And because of my passion behind seeing relationships grow stronger over time. Whether you’re married, whether it’s your business relationship. Seeing communication grow stronger.
I feel like that was important to me, and I feel like the people that are still following me to this day, are the same people that were pretty much on board from the beginning, and they’re very loyal and they’re not huge numbers. But I’m happy with them. They are a steady number, though, for sure.
Dave: Do you mind sharing what the numbers are?
Nicole: No, not at all. So my numbers spiked when I had someone really – now are you talking about trend numbers, or actual download?
Dave: Just a general estimate. I ask because I think it’s encouraging. I’m not one who is – I’m like you, I’m not after big numbers, and I think it’s unrealistic to think that you’re going to get big numbers. I think it’s encouraging that you’ve hit a hundred episodes, and I’d like to hear what your numbers are, just in general.
Nicole: For downloads? Or for like actual regular listeners.
Dave: Either. Or both.
Nicole: Okay, let’s talk about downloads, because I think that’s huge. People really get caught up on that, and they’ve even written articles about it, which I comment on them. So I’ve heard things like ‘if you don’t have over a hundred reviews and ratings then you’re just a hobby podcaster.’
Nicole: You know, whatever. People are going to have their opinions and that’s fine. I think I’m almost at a hundred reviews and ratings. But all of mine – here’s the other thing, too.
Mine are organic. I didn’t go over there and say hey, let’s swap, or let’s do this. I want to give reviews and ratings to people, and I will actually listen to your show and review and rate it. And they’ll say I’ll listen to your sand review, and I’ll say ‘okay, whatever. But only if you listen to it.’
Please listen to the show. I do not want to be soliciting reviews and ratings. So for me, my advice to you is why are you doing this? Is it about growing? Like you said – sometimes I think it’s unrealistic for people to have these high expectations, like I’m going to get a thousand downloads in the first week.
So I, normally in the beginning, when I started out, I was getting a regular 200 downloads for the shows. And in the beginning you do get a lot more. It would spike if I got a good guest. James Altucher did blow up my downloads.
It was crazy. I don’t remember the numbers, but it was definitely thousands and thousands. Whenever I would advertise it I would get more.
And that can definitely feel good – but actually it didn’t, because then I did a solo one and I was just teaching about communication or something, and I got like 107.
Dave: They all went away.
Nicole: And the one thing I did learn at podcast movement, I think it was Andy Bowers, who I really like, he said ‘you have an average and it never changes, then you’re doing something really good. If you see that average going up.’
And so my average really was 200-500 downloads with episodes coming out. And they’ve always – they’ve always stayed that way. So if I can stay between 200-500, and I think over time people got used to it, and those numbers do go up, then I was happy.
I remember someone, a new guy saying oh my gosh I got 200 downloads on this one episode, and I was like ‘that is awesome!’ it was like his third episode.
Dave: Yeah,that’s awesome.
Nicole: Gavin, my husband, got like 7 downloads for like months on the first couple times in real estate, on his podcast, The Real Estate Loop. Now he gets like a thousand.
He had bigger pockets give him a shout out, and people started to get to know him, and he’s been at it – you know, he’s over 100 too, and his downloads are at a thousand, but he has a lot of people that are interested in real estate investing. So they’re reaching out to him, and they’re wanting to know.
And there’s not tons of real estate investing podcasts out there. So in my niche it’s personal development, business marketing, you know sometimes we have some humor in it.
There’s tons of them out there that are listening, so for me to average 500, I think, regularly is really good. At least within my community. Having 500-1000. I have a lot of people on my list, but some of them aren’t interactive. And I like interactive.
I like that energy. I like people messaging me saying ‘Nicole I love what you posted on Facebook today, or I love this episode, I love what you said about this.’
And I’ve had more people come back about relationships or communication and say ‘hey, this episode helped me with my marriage, or this episode helped with this.’
To me, that’s what it’s about. And if I can get 200-500 faithful, loyal that aren’t leaving me. If I put something out there or talk about a webinar that I’ve done, they’re into it? That to me is worth it.
I never wanted to take care of thousands of people.
Nicole: Some people want to, and that’s totally cool. But my goal right now is to raise my kids. So if I can keep abreast of my community. And I do, actually, I’ve actually had friendships form out of people that follow me and are on my list.
I actually meet with a friend of mine via Skype, we just chatted on Friday. And we try to chat once a month or something, and she lives, you know, in Philadelphia or something.
Stuff like that, it’s pretty cool. And to me, that’s what I’m after. That’s what I got, and I’m satisfied with that. I agree with you, David, they could be unrealistic.
If you’re expecting thousands and thousands of downloads and you’re just groveling at it and posting the same thing in five different podcast groups, that’s a turnoff to me. I don’t even want to look at your stuff. It’s a total turnoff for me.
For marketing and pitching, to me, this is what I teach, that’s you being needy. I’m not going to be needy. I just don’t need to be needy with my podcast. I’m sorry.
Needy people do desperate things and I don’t trust needy people. That’s marketing 101. That’s sales 101. And I’m not down with that.
Dave: Yeah, absolutely. Do you have a good way to keep in touch with your audience and let them know what you’re doing and get new episodes?
Nicole: Yeah, definitely an email list. I use Get Response. I really like them. I like the stuff that they put in their actual. I tried the AWeber, and the MailChimp, whatever, the monkey thing.
Dave: Yeah, that’s MailChimp.
Nicole: I do a lot of testing, as to what responds better. So I get out there in the community. So what’s cool about my tribe, or whatever you want to call it, so that I am more hands on. So they’ve heard me speak somewhere, they’ve heard me do a workshop.
I’m involved with Florida partnerships, with nonprofits. I have a whole eclectic following. So I’ll give them my card and say ‘hey, check out my episode.’
So also another thing that I tell people to do is on your email, just your regular emails – your account. Put at the bottom where you sign your name, your tagline.
My tagline is ‘what you do comes out of who you are’, and then I say ‘hey, have you listened to my show where I interview amazing men about business tips and this and that?’
Nicole: So, right there, any email I send, they know I have a podcast. Now locally, some people didn’t know what a podcast was, so I can hook them in just by curiosity.
Dave: Right. Have you actively tried to grow your podcast through traditional or digital marketing avenues as far as Twitter, Facebook ads, anything like that?
Nicole: I never did Facebook ads, Gavin has, and he said it helped his with real estate. For me, no, just because – I don’t know. I just didn’t. I have used Twitter, and just tweeting out stuff.
Dave: But it’s been mostly organic?
Nicole: Very organic, yeah.
Nicole: He actually paid, and he said it was worth it. He did a very low scale, like he kind of tested it out with real estate stuff and it helped. Also, too, definitely get on other people’s podcasts. Or guest blog – write for other people if you can. Go and speak – do workshops.
I know like me and you, we go to the Podcast Movement. That’s a great way to promote, as well, your show.
Dave: Have you tried to do any types of marketing, maybe even early on, that didn’t work? That you were trying to build an audience that you thought might work, you tested something and it didn’t?
Nicole: I think testing your opt-ins. I think you should do that, I think Tim Paige talked about that at podcast movement. I think it’s really important. I did a – I remember doing a whole seminar training thing, and I gave it away for free on body language, and it totally tanked.
And I actually thought it was really good. I was trying to get a lot of opt-ins for that, and then I did a couple other lead magnet stuff, and that didn’t work.
I think my advice to people would be to test that stuff out. Find out what it is you’re looking for. I did one on the love languages- breaking it down as to what the kiss of death is, like when you’re not expressing love language, and that did really well. People still ask me for that, because it’s free.
I’m just basically taking Gary Chapman’s book and, I condensed it down to like a 5-page report, and I give very simplistic scenarios of what you – I mean everybody needs to know that. Good grief.
Dave: Yeah, absolutely.
Nicole: That, and just really getting on other podcasts.
Dave: Have you actively tried to get on other podcasts?
Nicole: I haven’t done other emails, although I did think about it. No, I’ve had a lot of people just come and ask me. But I do like the idea of doing that. Of making the emails.
I’ve had a lot of people come to me and say ‘hey, this person would be great for your show – this person would be great for your show. And by the way, I could also bring to your show this this and this that I’ve done, so let me know.’
I think that’s a great tactic to get on podcasts. Please give value first. Give me 2 people that I get to look at and think these guys might be a good fit. And I actually really value that when people suggest to me people for my show.
And then if they say ‘I too could offer you – and talk about this. Talk about my son who, blah blah blah blah blah, and what masculinity means – talk about marketing and how you can communicate better to your tribe, or whatever.’
So I think yes, I think that’s important. I actively didn’t do an email. But I – yeah- I would have people reach out to me and say they’d like to do your show.
Dave: Just make yourself available.
Nicole: Definitely make yourself available! I’m like Chris Brogan — I will be pretty much on anyone’s show. I did have one crazy guy ask me. It really showed me that he didn’t understand, and didn’t want to understand what my show was about.
He was really off color and very, um, inappropriate is the world I would use. I was like ‘dude, get a clue.’ I was pretty upfront with him, like this isn’t going to happen.
He actually called and was not taking no for an answer. I was like ‘you need to get a life.’ I’ve always said yes to people on their show no matter what the audience number is because I want to help other podcasters.
Dave: That’s awesome.
Nicole: And I do have an eclectic array of things that I could talk about. I’ve been on relationship ones, I’ve been on health ones, I’ve been on a bunch of different ones. So, I love – I didn’t feel bad when I heard Chris Brogan say I’ll say yes to anybody’s podcast. So if anybody wants to interview Chris Brogan, he probably would say yes.
I interviewed him at Podcast Movement. Oh, that’s another good tip. If you go to conferences, buy a freaking microphone and get your portable recorder, like a Roland, or a Zoom.
That’s how I got Marc Maron, just go up and say ‘hey, can I take 10 minutes and ask you a few questions’ – don’t even say can I interview you. Just say can I ask a few questions.
Dave: That’s great – make it seem – lower the barrier. Lower the hurdle.
Nicole: Lower that barrier, dude, because you’re there and they’re there. It makes them feel like they’re on the red carpet and they get to be interviewed.
Dave: That’s great.
Nicole: And you’ll feel really cool walking around with that microphone.
Dave: Yeah, I think that’s – I was aware of you at the podcast movement, watching you go around interviewing everybody. And I think I saw you interview – did you interview Pat Flynn in the little booth there?
Nicole: I did! With my Buzzsprout boys. Yeah.
Dave: That’s awesome. Do you have any goals? Where are you headed with your podcast? What’s your objective moving forward?
Nicole: Oh my gosh. I saw that question, and I was like ‘oh boy, I don’t know!’
Dave: If you don’t have an objective, if you just want to keep it going, it’s okay.
Nicole: No, I do! I actually probably do need to process it more, I need to talk about it more. So, my goal – I’m actually on the fence right now. I’m a spiritual person, so I pray about what I’m supposed to be doing, and I feel like I can’t get go of Real Time Real Men Only.
I don’t know where I want it to go. And so recently I’ve been thinking about doing just some solo episodes of, you know, what’s going on, and just kind of laying off interviews for now.
I’m not sure why I feel like I want to do that, but I kind of want to talk about politics, and religion, and society, and culture.
I teach sociology at the college, so just stuff that’s going on in our world. Right now I feel like – I mean, again, this could totally be self absorbed behavior, like maybe I need to process that. I feel like I almost want to take it in that direction.
And I don’t want to say I don’t want to do interviews – because I still get requests. Even now, people are asking, saying ‘hey, this person would be great, blah blah blah.’
But for some reason, something in me right now isn’t really hyped up to do that, and I want to do like shorter snippets, like 15 minutes of just hey, I’m talking about living from your heart, or maintaining your heart or communication.
I do find that right now I’m being asked more about relationships and confidence and body language and communication,and less on the business side of it. Less about marketing and business.
You know, for a while there, I had a few interviews where they would just talk about their story and the business. We’d talk about tips and tactics. And I was like ‘you know, this isn’t really feeding my fire.’
I’m kind of navigating those waters right now with Real Time Real Men Only. And even thinking about – I have talked about doing a new show, and maybe putting Real Time: Real Men Only to rest. So I’m kind of in that real transition.
But something will happen this year for sure – like within the next couple of months. I will make some sort of decision and be out there with it.
I’m pretty transparent.
Dave: I was going to say I appreciate you being open and honest. Well Nic, I want to respect your time, but I have to ask – what is the most remarkable podcast that you listen to.
Nicole: Yeah, I saw that, and it was such a hard question for me! Because I was like ‘oh, my gosh, I don’t want to have to put one or the other on the pedestal. I will say this, and I don’t know if you know him, David, but Kevin Rogers. Do you know who Kevin Rogers is?
Dave: I don’t.
Nicole: Okay, so he has The Truth About Marketing. And he lives in Florida, and he is an amazing copywriter. Amazing. He is the Copy Chief is what they call him. And he is an amazing story teller. Sometimes I just love to listen to him talk. Because he used to be a comedian, and he just understands hooks.
He understands inflection of when you’re just talking or telling a story, and it’s almost like listening to someone read you a story. But it’s informational and it’s valuable.
So the truth about marketing with Kevin Rogers is someone I love. I was a huge Altucher fan for a while. I have definitely taken a backseat. For some reason, I don’t know. It’s really depending on the guests that he has. But I used to listen to the James Altucher Show and Ask Altucher.
And then Jason Bernard, Mastermind Talks podcast. What he does is really cool. He’ll take these conference he does that are amazing, and he will put the speakers, on the show. As a podcast episode. He used to interview, sometimes he does talk or does solo. He’s like me, he’s a little bit more eclectic.
And I’ve done that. I’ve actually spoken at a few places, and then posted it as a show. Or, you know, as an episode. So, I would say right now, I’m totally into those.
And then I get my church on and I listen to John Eldredge, which is the Ransomed Heart podcast.
Nicole: I really like them because they do talk a lot about masculinity and femininity. That kind of inspired me to do Real Time: Real Men Only. Because I felt like, in teaching college, that these men and women – these freshmen, were so kind of confused about their roles in society, and how they were as a woman or a male.
Now it’s become very political. But at the end of the day, your gender is very much a part of who you are. And I believe it holds a huge part of your destiny. So that was one of the reasons that inspired me to do Real Time: Real Men Only.
To see men in a different light then just how women viewed men. And Vice Versa, how men view women. That’s really dear to my heart. I really enjoy that podcast.
And then sometimes, I’ll listen to, like the NPR ones. My husband likes to listen to them, and we’ll listen to them in the car. But right now, Kevin Rogers, The Truth About Marketing.
You should tune in, because you would love him, he’s really good. They’re short, because I definitely have attention span issues.
Tim Ferriss is the only one I know right now who can get away with doing 2 hour interviews. If it’s someone I like like Laird Hamilton, or Morgan Spurlock who I adore, I listened to that episode. But I always fast forward through the advertisement.
For me, we don’t have cable, and I don’t want to hear commercials.
Dave: Yeah, I’m with you. It’s about four minutes, and you get to the 4-5 minute mark, then you start the podcast.
Nicole: Right! I’m not saying that you shouldn’t do that. I will say that I do like how Tim does it, how he is kind of sponsoring or talking about whatever it is he’s using, because he’s used it. So he’s actually telling you, so it’s really more of a credible commercials.
But when you’re doing kind of these boring – you now. That would be my other tip, I know you didn’t ask, but I’m going to tell you another tip.
Nicole: The intro to your podcast – now I totally went against what Jeff Brown said, and to this day. You know, he loves me and I love him, but he was wanting me to do this really clear cut, kind of what everybody else was doing, to the intro. And right now I have a podcast client, and I said ‘no man, let’s do a pattern interrupt.’
That’s like what my intro is, you know ‘Can I get a real man here?’ and then, it bursts into this voiceover guy who’s amazing, Jeremy Ryan, he’s done like Ford commercials before and stuff, and it’s worth paying him to do an intro. And he’s doing the music behind it, and it’s going along with what he’s saying.
Now I did cut my intro a lot shorter now, it used to be almost like a minute and something wrong. I personally wrote the script for it. I feel like making it funny, or making it different is really important in the beginning of the intro. And so, also storytelling.
You know, with marketing, what is the problem? So right now my client is in the health niche. Well, the problem is, in the health niche, you hear every kind of baloney about what’s in and what’s not with health and fitness, right?
You hear take this magical pill and eat this fad diet – well I told them that should be our intro! We need to make it real where everybody can relate to that intro. And so we had so much fun cracking the script for his intro.
I cannot wait until it comes out. He’s actually gonna use my guy and we’re gonna produce some funny music behind it, and everything.
I just think it’s fun to do it different. For a while I was hearing everybody do theirs where ‘this show is about blah blah blah.’ and in marketing I always teach you want to intrigue, you don’t want to give information.
And that’s very going against the grain, because everybody says ‘I want to know what this podcast is about.’ But when I intrigue you, and I hook you, you’re going to stay anyway. It’s just like hooking a fish. I’m going to pull you up out of that water anyway, because you’re already hooked onto that hook.
So I just think, taking a risk and being a little different, a little out of the box for your intro, I would highly encourage people to do that.
Dave: Well, Nic, where can we go to learn more about you?
Nicole: You can go to RapWithNic.com. Most people ask me if I’m a rapper, and I have rapped, but that isn’t why — funny back story, I don’t know how much time you have, but a funny backstory to that is, is I was selling wraps.
So I’m a very thin girl, and I was actually selling body wraps to people. And they were laughing, because they were like’ well, how can you sell wraps when you’re not even overweight?
And I’m like ‘it’s just how you hook ‘em in, it’s just the sale.’ So I started thinking about the word, man I want to rap with you some day, let’s wrap, let’s riff, let’s talk about this.’
We’d talk about deep subjects and stuff, and so I started thinking ‘well, rap, what does it mean?’ and I actually looked up the word and it means orator, someone who is expressing.
And that’s what rap is – well, the good rap music, back in the day, nowadays I don’t know what it is. But rap music was about storytelling, about oration, oral history, oral storytelling.
And so I thought that’s what a podcast is! That’s what I’m all about is rapping with people and talking to them and getting to know them, their story, and all of that.
That’s where the name came about, Rap with Nic, and the fact that marketing tactic, nobody else has that anywhere, in the world.
Dave: Yeah, yeah it’s great.
Nicole: It’s got my name in it, and if people want to wrap with me, just go to rapwithnic.com.
Dave: Yeah, I’m going to include a link to that on the show notes along with the other things you’ve mentioned.
Nicole: Yeah, and I love your name, Remarkable Podcast, for people that are looking into podcasting, I have a free report about the 7 Deadly Sins of Podcasting, which I made all those mistakes.
Not growing my list right away, and not doing all that stuff. Yeah, you can grab that too while you’re there.
Dave: And they can find that at Rap With Nic?
Nicole: Well thanks so much for having me on your show, this has been awesome. I’ve really enjoyed it.
Dave: Nic thank you for your time, the pleasure’s been all mine.
Nicole: Alright, you take care.
Dave: Alright, Bye-bye.